Feifan Wang, Source Medium | Coffee with a Founder Podcast

[00:00] You were walking aggressively over to Bang Capital. Bang Capital. Yeah. Yeah. What a life. What a life. What a day we’re in. What a day we’re in. It’s true. It’s true. FA, we’re going It’s true. It’s true. FA, we’re going to start just with that like cold open.

[00:14] to start just with that like cold open. Everybody, this is coffee with a Everybody, this is coffee with a founder. I’m Beck Bamberger. We do this founder. I’m Beck Bamberger. We do this show because we want to better show because we want to better understand why founders are doing the understand why founders are doing the hilacious things of running

[00:24] hilacious things of running venturebacked companies and frankly you venturebacked companies and frankly you know how do you survive it and why know how do you survive it and why do you even do it to begin with and with do you even do it to begin with and with us today is Fe Wang. He is the CEO and

[00:34] us today is Fe Wang. He is the CEO and founder of SourceMedium doing a lot as founder of SourceMedium doing a lot as it relates to agents and who’s not doing it relates to agents and who’s not doing a lot with agents right now and data a lot with agents right now and data infrastructure specifically. So we’re

[00:43] infrastructure specifically. So we’re going to get into that but FA thank you going to get into that but FA thank you for being here first off. for being here first off. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having me. I’m excited get into this. me. I’m excited get into this. Where are you calling in from today? New

[00:53] Where are you calling in from today? New York. York. Miami, actually. Miami, actually. Oh, Miami. What are you doing there? Oh, Miami. What are you doing there? Conference fun. Conference fun. I live here. Yeah. I live here. Yeah. Oh. Oh, Oh. Oh, I live here.

[01:01] I live here. Yeah. Yeah. On your LinkedIn, sir. It says New York On your LinkedIn, sir. It says New York is Wait, is Wait, I actually do half and half. I actually do half and half. Okay. Okay. Half New York, half Miami. So, I just I

[01:10] Half New York, half Miami. So, I just I just switched back last week, just switched back last week, actually. So, actually. So, okay. okay. Excited to be back. Excellent. What a Excited to be back. Excellent. What a contrast, especially this time of year contrast, especially this time of year between the two, I’m sure, because it’s

[01:21] between the two, I’m sure, because it’s freezing there and Yeah. Yeah. Good. there and Yeah. Yeah. Good. I’m feeling very lucky. It’s It’s funny. I’m feeling very lucky. It’s It’s funny. There’s been like a cold front in Miami There’s been like a cold front in Miami and people are like, and people are like, “Oh, it’s like

[01:31] “Oh, it’s like explaining how it’s cold. explaining how it’s cold. 70 degrees today.” Yeah. Exactly. 70 degrees today.” Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. FA, what are we doing at SourceMedium? FA, what are we doing at SourceMedium? What is this infrastructure that we’re What is this infrastructure that we’re working on? Data infrastructure

[01:44] working on? Data infrastructure specifically. specifically. Yeah. Thank you for that question. So Yeah. Thank you for that question. So basically what we do is we help eight to basically what we do is we help eight to nine figure e-commerce brands nine figure e-commerce brands manage their data. So what does that manage their data. So what does that mean? Aggregate it, unify it, clean it,

[01:57] mean? Aggregate it, unify it, clean it, make it into a common set of make it into a common set of repeatable schemas and ways of repeatable schemas and ways of presenting that information that works presenting that information that works across really any merchants that are on across really any merchants that are on the e-commerce platforms we support. You

[02:10] the e-commerce platforms we support. You know, we support Shopify, Amazon, Tik know, we support Shopify, Amazon, Tik Tok shop, etc. Tok shop, etc. And people are able to essentially look And people are able to essentially look at all of their data from all of these at all of their data from all of these different channels with a single pane of

[02:22] different channels with a single pane of glass. And now this week we are glass. And now this week we are actually launching our Slack data actually launching our Slack data analyst agent that is now able to talk analyst agent that is now able to talk to all of your data to all of your data and get you the answers. So that’s

[02:37] and get you the answers. So that’s been like the latest evolution of our of been like the latest evolution of our of our journey. Hm. And previously you were our journey. Hm. And previously you were doing, you know, the EIR thing, the doing, you know, the EIR thing, the entrepreneur and resident for a little entrepreneur and resident for a little bit, and then you were also a fellow at

[02:48] bit, and then you were also a fellow at Robin Hood. So, how was this baking in Robin Hood. So, how was this baking in your brain that this needed to be come your brain that this needed to be come about? about? Yeah. So, my last job was at a Yeah. So, my last job was at a company called Resident Home. So, we I

[03:02] company called Resident Home. So, we I joined there fairly early and as joined there fairly early and as of today, it’s the largest online of today, it’s the largest online mattress retailer in North America. mattress retailer in North America. we have many different brands. You may we have many different brands. You may have heard of Nectar and Dream Cloud

[03:14] have heard of Nectar and Dream Cloud etc. etc. Yeah. So you know when I when I Yeah. So you know when I when I joined we were kind of in this joined we were kind of in this hyperrowth phase and data was just like hyperrowth phase and data was just like an everpresent issue too much data you

[03:25] an everpresent issue too much data you know it’s broken it’s not accurate it’s know it’s broken it’s not accurate it’s not usable it’s not actionable all the not usable it’s not actionable all the different things and I kind of went down different things and I kind of went down this rabbit hole of trying to build a this rabbit hole of trying to build a data infrastructure internally you know

[03:37] data infrastructure internally you know next thing you know I’m like having all next thing you know I’m like having all of these different vendor conversations of these different vendor conversations deciding between BigQuery versus deciding between BigQuery versus Snowflake and having to hire people to Snowflake and having to hire people to come in and sort of like manage all of

[03:49] come in and sort of like manage all of these very expensive software these very expensive software products that don’t inherently talk to products that don’t inherently talk to each other and we’re just selling each other and we’re just selling mattresses, right? So, that was kind of mattresses, right? So, that was kind of like my big revelation is managing

[04:04] like my big revelation is managing data is data is a problem in every business, but like a problem in every business, but like in this one especially, we’re just in this one especially, we’re just selling mattresses. So what about the selling mattresses. So what about the brand that’s selling sandals and brand that’s selling sandals and furniturees and all kinds of stuff?

[04:16] furniturees and all kinds of stuff? Yeah, Yeah, there’s just this problem is ever there’s just this problem is ever present. So that’s that’s kind of where present. So that’s that’s kind of where the where SourceMedium came from. the where SourceMedium came from. Is it just me, FA, or is a lot of what’s

[04:26] Is it just me, FA, or is a lot of what’s trying to be solved right now is how all trying to be solved right now is how all of your tech stack doesn’t talk to each of your tech stack doesn’t talk to each other and so let’s have a thing that other and so let’s have a thing that makes it all talk to each other,

[04:36] makes it all talk to each other, right? right? Yeah. Yeah. in May 2020 when I Yeah. Yeah. in May 2020 when I started the company this was not like started the company this was not like people always like well why doesn’t this people always like well why doesn’t this sandals company just hire a data

[04:48] sandals company just hire a data scientist right so scientist right so I don’t think that’s what people I don’t think that’s what people would say now right I feel like people would say now right I feel like people are much more about hey you need to find are much more about hey you need to find the Shopify equivalent of this thing

[05:00] the Shopify equivalent of this thing and so yeah so that but that did take and so yeah so that but that did take that did take a lot of perseverance that did take a lot of perseverance because that was not the common because that was not the common opinion back then.

[05:11] opinion back then. H okay. So not related to that but going H okay. So not related to that but going further back like even further back you further back like even further back you immigrated here to the US when you were immigrated here to the US when you were 14 from China. 14 from China. That’s what I heard. That’s what I got.

[05:25] That’s what I heard. That’s what I got. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I have in your bio your early And I have in your bio your early experience of culture adaptation laid experience of culture adaptation laid the groundwork for your entrepreneurial the groundwork for your entrepreneurial spirit. And you worked at Google, you

[05:35] spirit. And you worked at Google, you did all types of things. Yeah. resident did all types of things. Yeah. resident home and so forth. But talk a little home and so forth. But talk a little bit about that because there’s so many bit about that because there’s so many so many so many so many so many ventureback founders who are immigrants.

[05:45] ventureback founders who are immigrants. Obviously, this is a topic that is very Obviously, this is a topic that is very apppropo right now and in the vernacular apppropo right now and in the vernacular and with the visas and all that other and with the visas and all that other crap going on. So, just tell us from

[05:54] crap going on. So, just tell us from your own opinion and from your own your own opinion and from your own experience how that has shaped you experience how that has shaped you today. today. Yeah, it’s one of those things I would Yeah, it’s one of those things I would not repeat again, but I would also not

[06:04] not repeat again, but I would also not having gone through that either, you not having gone through that either, you know. like when I first arrived in know. like when I first arrived in the States, I actually didn’t speak any the States, I actually didn’t speak any English and I was and I was Okay. Oh, wow.

[06:15] Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. I was air dropped into the middle of I was air dropped into the middle of seventh grade in middle school. I seventh grade in middle school. I didn’t know what a trapper keeper was. I didn’t know what a trapper keeper was. I didn’t know how to use those lockers.

[06:25] didn’t know how to use those lockers. Like Oh, wow. You know, in China, we sit in a Oh, wow. You know, in China, we sit in a classroom and we don’t walk around classroom and we don’t walk around different class. Like everything was different class. Like everything was kind of opposite. kind of opposite. Wow. Wait, where do you drop ship to by

[06:35] Wow. Wait, where do you drop ship to by the way? Like somewhere in the middle of the way? Like somewhere in the middle of the country or where? the country or where? In Maryland, actually. In Maryland, actually. Oh, okay. Not in the middle, but Okay. Oh, okay. Not in the middle, but Okay. Got

[06:42] Got in the suburbs. That was my in the suburbs. That was my I don’t know if you want to disclose I don’t know if you want to disclose this, but like what how what this, but like what how what happened? Did your parents go like, happened? Did your parents go like, “Okay, we got our visas. Like, we’re

[06:51] “Okay, we got our visas. Like, we’re going.” going.” Yeah. My mom actually had a chance to go Yeah. My mom actually had a chance to go work at NIH in Bethesda and you work at NIH in Bethesda and you know and that was our opportunity know and that was our opportunity for that was her opportunity to bring me

[07:04] for that was her opportunity to bring me here and the rest is history. Yeah. and the rest is history. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So you’re there in Maryland seventh So you’re there in Maryland seventh grade. You don’t speak any English. You grade. You don’t speak any English. You don’t even know what the not thing is.

[07:15] don’t even know what the not thing is. Oh god. Okay. God. Oh god. Okay. God. Absolutely none. Yeah. But now I dreamy Absolutely none. Yeah. But now I dreamy English. But, you know, I’ I’ve been English. But, you know, I’ I’ve been speaking English now much longer than speaking English now much longer than Chinese, you know. So, I’m almost 40

[07:27] Chinese, you know. So, I’m almost 40 though. So, you know, though. So, you know, it’s been a while. It’s been a while. it’s been a while. It’s been a while. Been around for a while. Yeah. Been around for a while. Yeah. It’s been a while. Dang. Okay. It’s been a while. Dang. Okay. Is there a pivotal moment in seventh

[07:38] Is there a pivotal moment in seventh grade, eighth grade, anything where grade, eighth grade, anything where you’re just like, “Oh, this was when I you’re just like, “Oh, this was when I had I don’t know, like rock bottom had I don’t know, like rock bottom moment of just I am totally a fish out moment of just I am totally a fish out of water or the how am I going to

[07:48] of water or the how am I going to survive this?” survive this?” Just curious. Just curious. Yeah, that was on like first day of Yeah, that was on like first day of school. school. school. school. yeah. Well, like I didn’t know, for yeah. Well, like I didn’t know, for example, that you have to change go

[08:01] example, that you have to change go to the locker room and change for gym to the locker room and change for gym class. That was not a thing for us. We class. That was not a thing for us. We just like gym classing our regular just like gym classing our regular uniforms. I actually didn’t even have

[08:10] uniforms. I actually didn’t even have anything to change into. I didn’t have a anything to change into. I didn’t have a lock. So, I was shadowing lock. So, I was shadowing someone who came like a year earlier someone who came like a year earlier and she’s she’s a girl. So, I was so and she’s she’s a girl. So, I was so scared I was waiting outside of the

[08:23] scared I was waiting outside of the girls locker room for her to come out girls locker room for her to come out because I didn’t know where to go. So because I didn’t know where to go. So every single girl in seventh grade came every single girl in seventh grade came out and looked at me and was like,

[08:32] out and looked at me and was like, “Okay, what are you what are you doing?” “Okay, what are you what are you doing?” And I was like, And I was like, “Wait, so you’re like, “Hey, I’m in gym “Wait, so you’re like, “Hey, I’m in gym class.” And you’re like, “Where are you class.” And you’re like, “Where are you going? What are you where’s the out why

[08:41] going? What are you where’s the out why did the outfit change? did the outfit change? Why are you Well, no, they were all Why are you Well, no, they were all like, “What are you doing here?” Like, like, “What are you doing here?” Like, oh, oh, why are you standing here? Like, I

[08:48] why are you standing here? Like, I didn’t even have any Nikes. I had like didn’t even have any Nikes. I had like leanings, you know? leanings, you know? I was like wearing a whole other outfit. I was like wearing a whole other outfit. Oh my god. Oh my god. And I just stood out. So,, and

[09:00] And I just stood out. So,, and people were like, “Why are you what are people were like, “Why are you what are you doing? Like, why are you standing you doing? Like, why are you standing outside the girls locker room?” And I outside the girls locker room?” And I could only say, “I don’t

[09:06] I could only say, “I don’t understand.” understand.” And,, I was just like waiting for her And,, I was just like waiting for her to come out. So, yeah, that to come out. So, yeah, that basically like destroyed my self-esteem basically like destroyed my self-esteem for a while. I’m like, “All right, now

[09:17] for a while. I’m like, “All right, now forget about talking to any girls for a forget about talking to any girls for a while, you know?” while, you know?” Oh, god. Oh, god. Oh, okay. Well, obviously you’ve bounced Oh, okay. Well, obviously you’ve bounced back. So, back. So, how did how did it get better basically?

[09:31] how did how did it get better basically? Yeah. It was only up from there. I can Yeah. It was only up from there. I can tell you that. tell you that. I mean, yeah. You know what? One of my I mean, yeah. You know what? One of my favorite things is you can’t fall from

[09:36] favorite things is you can’t fall from the floor. the floor. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. You can’t fall from the floor. You can’t fall from the floor. So, when you’re on it, So, when you’re on it, okay, it’s cold. okay, it’s cold. Yeah. But I didn’t I didn’t know that

[09:46] Yeah. But I didn’t I didn’t know that was that was rock bottom at that moment. was that was rock bottom at that moment. there may have been lower moments. there may have been lower moments. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. Okay. I was going to say was it okay. I was going to say was it okay because now reflecting to get into this

[09:56] because now reflecting to get into this whole psychological deep dive but whole psychological deep dive but I’m an open book so you can ask me. I’m an open book so you can ask me. Yeah. I mean it’s hard it’s hard to Yeah. I mean it’s hard it’s hard to remember my entire life but like remember my entire life but like definitely that’s one of those moments

[10:05] definitely that’s one of those moments where I will never forget you know and where I will never forget you know and that’s like part of who I am and that’s that’s like part of who I am and that’s like part of the reason for what I like part of the reason for what I am and who I am because you know people

[10:15] am and who I am because you know people always say oh like what’s what’s the always say oh like what’s what’s the thing that makes you want to do this? thing that makes you want to do this? you know but like what’s the you know but like what’s the thing that taught you how to you know be

[10:23] thing that taught you how to you know be an entrepreneur and I think it was just an entrepreneur and I think it was just those years like I had those years like I had it was total uncertainty and total it was total uncertainty and total just like I had adaptation just like I had adaptation and that’s what being an entrepreneur is

[10:36] and that’s what being an entrepreneur is like literally and learning like literally and learning things that you have no idea about and things that you have no idea about and that’s what I had to do with and that’s what I had to do with English with American culture with

[10:45] English with American culture with really everything you know so really everything you know so that’s what I do every pay and work and that’s what I do every pay and work and you know I think back to like and you know I think back to like other jobs or whatever. Sure. But like

[10:57] other jobs or whatever. Sure. But like you know it’s it’s not really comparable you know it’s it’s not really comparable even. even. No nothing like running your own No nothing like running your own thing. So speaking of thing. So speaking of and you’ve had other entrepreneurial and you’ve had other entrepreneurial things that you’ve done, but given that

[11:09] things that you’ve done, but given that experience, giving the seventh grader experience, giving the seventh grader who was standing outside of the PE who was standing outside of the PE locker room at the girls door wondering locker room at the girls door wondering what is happening, being rejected and what is happening, being rejected and not knowing anything of what they’re

[11:21] not knowing anything of what they’re even saying to you. Maybe that was a even saying to you. Maybe that was a I don’t know if I was rejected. Maybe I don’t know if I was rejected. Maybe I was accepted. I just didn’t know what was accepted. I just didn’t know what they were saying. they were saying. You don’t even know. You don’t even

[11:27] You don’t even know. You don’t even know. There’s some kind of magic in that know. There’s some kind of magic in that perhaps of this. I don’t know if you’re perhaps of this. I don’t know if you’re telling me I’m a piece of crap. I can’t telling me I’m a piece of crap. I can’t understand, you know, tone here. But

[11:36] understand, you know, tone here. But anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway, how has that experience then infused how has that experience then infused into the team you have now? You were into the team you have now? You were mentioning you’re like five people right mentioning you’re like five people right now, so small team. now, so small team. How does that work for right now?

[11:48] How does that work for right now? Yeah, I think the biggest, you know, Yeah, I think the biggest, you know, we’ve been around since May 2020. So, we’ve been around since May 2020. So, you know, we gone through the second you know, we gone through the second greatest tech crash of all time. greatest tech crash of all time. Yes. Was nothing.

[11:56] Yes. Was nothing. , you know, when I started raising , you know, when I started raising money, it was like two months into the money, it was like two months into the crash. Mhm. crash. Mhm. So there was there was just a lot of So there was there was just a lot of moments where like it was it was

[12:08] moments where like it was it was difficult and I think I think just like difficult and I think I think just like learning how to persevere as a kid, as a learning how to persevere as a kid, as a teenager especially, you know, was teenager especially, you know, was instrumental for me. and yeah,

[12:20] was instrumental for me. and yeah, you know, I think I think it’s just it’s you know, I think I think it’s just it’s all about character building and I am all about character building and I am who I am now because not only those who I am now because not only those experiences but my experience you

[12:30] experiences but my experience you know, running the company and evolving know, running the company and evolving our product and surviving, you know, and our product and surviving, you know, and that’s I would never give up those that’s I would never give up those experiences. even though, you know, experiences. even though, you know, like

[12:41] like I wouldn’t want to do it again. I wouldn’t want to do it again. You know what I mean? Like I don’t want You know what I mean? Like I don’t want to do it again, but like I’m glad that to do it again, but like I’m glad that I’m here on the other side of it.

[12:49] I’m here on the other side of it. Yeah. H I feel like that’s the best. Yeah. H I feel like that’s the best. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I agree. You know what? Yep. And that’s You know what? Yep. And that’s that’s where we are. And it is best. that’s where we are. And it is best. That’s where we are. Yeah.

[13:01] That’s where we are. Yeah. And there’s AI. Like I did not know that And there’s AI. Like I did not know that was going to be a thing. So that’s was going to be a thing. So that’s made my life so much easier, too. So I made my life so much easier, too. So I mean I’m I’m very grateful for where

[13:10] mean I’m I’m very grateful for where I am right now. I am right now. Let’s let’s talk about that then just a Let’s let’s talk about that then just a little bit. So AI, so how is AI helping little bit. So AI, so how is AI helping you so much more? Let’s say you so much more? Let’s say often everyone on here is like, “Yeah,

[13:19] often everyone on here is like, “Yeah, I’m doing something in AI. I’m building I’m doing something in AI. I’m building something in AI.” It’s like, “Yes, okay, something in AI.” It’s like, “Yes, okay, great.” But like you as a founder not great.” But like you as a founder not using your own stuff, what does it look

[13:26] using your own stuff, what does it look like? like? Oh, just like personally. Oh, just like personally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean really everything like I mean really everything like for example coding. I’m a technical for example coding. I’m a technical founder and now my productivity has

[13:41] founder and now my productivity has probably 100xed. 100xed. Awesome. Awesome. , , it’s pretty dang good. it’s pretty dang good. , that’s not exact math, but you know, , that’s not exact math, but you know, way more than what it was before. way more than what it was before. Yeah.

[13:53] Yeah. And there’s just a lot of implications, And there’s just a lot of implications, right? Like before it was I had to raise right? Like before it was I had to raise capital and bring a big team without capital and bring a big team without the market demand and all of

[14:04] the market demand and all of that, right? So now we’re just able to that, right? So now we’re just able to still move at the speed of still move at the speed of a company that’s like a company that’s like four, five, six times the size. four, five, six times the size. Yeah.

[14:13] Yeah. And have a product that is that can And have a product that is that can actually be superior. And it just actually be superior. And it just allows us to just like leverage so much allows us to just like leverage so much more out of every person that we have. more out of every person that we have. And I actually like to have our team

[14:25] And I actually like to have our team size as a creative constraint, right? size as a creative constraint, right? is, you know, well, how can we 2x our is, you know, well, how can we 2x our customer count without hiring our customer count without hiring new people, right? What are where are new people, right? What are where are the bottlenecks really going to be?

[14:38] the bottlenecks really going to be? How do we prioritize our automation How do we prioritize our automation workflows and automation, you know, workflows and automation, you know, roadmap? roadmap? it just forces you to think about it just forces you to think about that if you say we’re not going to hire

[14:48] that if you say we’re not going to hire more people and that was not like more people and that was not like the dominant thought, you know. the dominant thought, you know. Yeah. you know even a couple years Yeah. you know even a couple years ago a couple years ago was all about

[15:00] ago a couple years ago was all about raise a bunch of money hire higher raise a bunch of money hire higher right and you’re the value of higher right and you’re the value of the founder was decided on their ability the founder was decided on their ability to attract talent and retain talent to attract talent and retain talent yes

[15:10] yes irregardless of profitability and irregardless of profitability and growth right so growth right so yeah so I’m I’m feeling very like I’m yeah so I’m I’m feeling very like I’m feeling great about that because like I feeling great about that because like I prefer to work with a much more lean and

[15:22] prefer to work with a much more lean and focused team you know at one point we focused team you know at one point we for like three times the size, right? for like three times the size, right? And like And like Oh, hey. Let’s talk about that a little Oh, hey. Let’s talk about that a little bit.

[15:32] bit. So, you were Oh, okay. Tell us more. So, you were Oh, okay. Tell us more. Yeah. So, you know, we raised like a Yeah. So, you know, we raised like a little bit of seed money in at the little bit of seed money in at the top of 2022, I think, or

[15:44] top of 2022, I think, or higher, higher, higher. higher, higher, higher. yeah, so that was it was the month of yeah, so that was it was the month of the Silicon Valley bank crash. I the Silicon Valley bank crash. I remember that very vividly. Who remember that very vividly. Who doesn’t remember that?

[15:55] doesn’t remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember exactly Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember exactly what I was doing. So, you know, so what I was doing. So, you know, so like we were fortunate enough to have like we were fortunate enough to have raised a little bit of money in those

[16:06] raised a little bit of money in those times and then like then it was like times and then like then it was like all right, how do I spend it? Hire all right, how do I spend it? Hire people, right? So, next thing you know, people, right? So, next thing you know, we got up to like, you know, we went

[16:15] we got up to like, you know, we went from like six, seven people to 15 or 14. from like six, seven people to 15 or 14. And I was like totally really unprepared And I was like totally really unprepared for that. Especially for that. Especially we’re just completely remote and it’s we’re just completely remote and it’s been remote since day zero because you

[16:28] been remote since day zero because you know the company was started two know the company was started two months into the into months into the into comic. Yeah. Yeah. comic. Yeah. Yeah. So that was that was just the default. So that was that was just the default. So you know managing that many people

[16:37] So you know managing that many people remotely was not really something that I remotely was not really something that I was prepared for and it just created a was prepared for and it just created a lot of problems. lot of problems. Yeah. And you know, but last year we Yeah. And you know, but last year we were able to you know like just kind of

[16:49] were able to you know like just kind of rethink everything and get and get our rethink everything and get and get our team size down to like you know five or team size down to like you know five or six with contractors and just like six with contractors and just like focus more on technology and workflow

[16:59] focus more on technology and workflow and automation and everyone’s and automation and everyone’s actually way happier, believe it or not. actually way happier, believe it or not. Okay. So that’s going to be my next Okay. So that’s going to be my next question. You took it out of me which is question. You took it out of me which is that better? Are you enjoying that

[17:09] is that better? Are you enjoying that more? more? Yeah. Yeah. you know, it’s better for Yeah. Yeah. you know, it’s better for us, right? I don’t think that’s for us, right? I don’t think that’s the right playbook for everyone. the right playbook for everyone. , you know, but I think the biggest

[17:22] , you know, but I think the biggest thing was to just thing was to just have the self-awareness, right? Having have the self-awareness, right? Having tried the other way and failed and the other way and failed and all that kind of stuff and kind of

[17:32] all that kind of stuff and kind of draw getting back to the drawing board draw getting back to the drawing board and like, and like, you know, what really works for me, what you know, what really works for me, what really works for this company. and really works for this company. and you know what’s going to bring what kind

[17:43] you know what’s going to bring what kind of a work or company setup is going of a work or company setup is going to bring not only myself but everybody to bring not only myself but everybody else on the team happiness and peace else on the team happiness and peace like those are my two primary KPIs

[17:54] like those are my two primary KPIs in life is being happy and being in life is being happy and being peaceful. peaceful. Happiness and peace. Oh yeah, I think Happiness and peace. Oh yeah, I think that is I haven’t heard that yet that is I haven’t heard that yet before. So I think you’re the first

[18:02] before. So I think you’re the first happiness and peace. happiness and peace. Yeah, that’s my that’s my short, medium, Yeah, that’s my that’s my short, medium, and long-term KPIs. So and long-term KPIs. So I like this. I will also comment I don’t I like this. I will also comment I don’t think there’s been any damn founder

[18:12] think there’s been any damn founder who’s like you know what I can’t wait to who’s like you know what I can’t wait to do hire a lot of more people that sounds do hire a lot of more people that sounds so no one says that right okay secondly so no one says that right okay secondly though let’s go back to that happiness

[18:20] though let’s go back to that happiness and peace and this can take us to the and peace and this can take us to the end here end here how are how are you measuring that you how are how are you measuring that you said KPI said KPI do you have a routine in which you touch

[18:30] do you have a routine in which you touch base with yourself and go how am I doing base with yourself and go how am I doing fay how happy am I fay how happy am I yeah I think there’s I mean that’s a yeah I think there’s I mean that’s a very layered question. You know, I think

[18:39] very layered question. You know, I think there’s so many different pieces to there’s so many different pieces to this, but this, but you know, when it comes to our you know, when it comes to our employees like working smart not employees like working smart not hard, right? Having flexibility, right? hard, right? Having flexibility, right? I believe in work life harmony like I

[18:56] I believe in work life harmony like I think that’s one of the key things, you think that’s one of the key things, you know, autonomy and ownership. Like know, autonomy and ownership. Like that’s what people have been saying is that’s what people have been saying is what they need, right? And what they need, right? And Oh, yeah. And we have amazing

[19:06] Oh, yeah. And we have amazing people that have been with us for people that have been with us for years like our attrition rate is for years like our attrition rate is very low because we focus so much on very low because we focus so much on that and like our goal is it’s a

[19:17] that and like our goal is it’s a marathon right so I think a lot of the marathon right so I think a lot of the you know everybody works seven days a you know everybody works seven days a week and d like it’s just not what I week and d like it’s just not what I believe., you know, I

[19:26] believe., you know, I on the 996. on the 996. Yeah. Like I just think it’s all Yeah. Like I just think it’s all contrived, you know. I think it’s it’s contrived, you know. I think it’s it’s about getting done and about getting done and understanding the objective and just understanding the objective and just like driving towards the vision. You

[19:38] like driving towards the vision. You know, what’s funny is when I started the know, what’s funny is when I started the company, the original vision in company, the original vision in May 2020 was a Slack analyst that never May 2020 was a Slack analyst that never sleeps. That’s like our current Facebook sleeps. That’s like our current Facebook page banner that’s been there since

[19:51] page banner that’s been there since 2020. 2020. Yeah. Yeah. And now we’re shipping that And now we’re shipping that after building all of the after building all of the infrastructure, all the foundation for infrastructure, all the foundation for five years and you know it was pre-trig five years and you know it was pre-trig like

[20:02] like I didn’t know how to I had no idea how I didn’t know how to I had no idea how to build something like that but I was to build something like that but I was just dumb enough to just go forward and just dumb enough to just go forward and then I built all of Rome over five years

[20:13] then I built all of Rome over five years right and it took us like five months to right and it took us like five months to build the agent and now we have build the agent and now we have something that is state-of-the-art so something that is state-of-the-art so you know like that gives me happiness

[20:24] you know like that gives me happiness and peace, right? Is achieving a vision and peace, right? Is achieving a vision and achieving a goal and having and achieving a goal and having that line of sight. That’s that’s what that line of sight. That’s that’s what gives me happiness and peace. Yeah, gives me happiness and peace. Yeah, I love that, FA. I love it. Let’s end it

[20:37] I love that, FA. I love it. Let’s end it right there. Let’s end it right there. right there. Let’s end it right there. Happiness and peace. And also, thank you Happiness and peace. And also, thank you for just giving like the contrast for just giving like the contrast because there is quite a spectrum right now on

[20:47] there is quite a spectrum right now on is it the 996 and we’re doing this until is it the 996 and we’re doing this until we die type of philosophies. Then we die type of philosophies. Then we have I think people like you who are have I think people like you who are like, “Wait a second. Wait a second. Am

[20:55] like, “Wait a second. Wait a second. Am I going to enjoy the work I do? Am I going to enjoy the work I do? Am I going to enjoy the people I work with? going to enjoy the people I work with? Are we going to build something great?” Are we going to build something great?” That’s the goal. But we’ll see.

[21:01] That’s the goal. But we’ll see. What would Rick Rubin say, right? Like, What would Rick Rubin say, right? Like, you know, I think people you know, I think people I take pity on the people I take pity on the people that are like, “Oh, you know, I got to

[21:11] that are like, “Oh, you know, I got to work every day because that’s the right work every day because that’s the right thing to do.” like clearly they’re not thing to do.” like clearly they’re not focusing on what matters in life, you focusing on what matters in life, you know, and it’s, you know, I know, and it’s, you know, I think I’m just at a I’m just at a point

[21:21] think I’m just at a I’m just at a point in life where it’s like, yeah, I could in life where it’s like, yeah, I could be doing this company for 20 more years, be doing this company for 20 more years, right? right? So, what’s why am I killing myself, So, what’s why am I killing myself, right? Like, if this company isn’t

[21:31] right? Like, if this company isn’t making me happier, making me happier, if it’s not bringing me peace, if it’s if it’s not bringing me peace, if it’s not bringing me fulfillment, then why am not bringing me fulfillment, then why am I doing this? Because, you know, we were I doing this? Because, you know, we were lucky enough to not have overraised.

[21:42] lucky enough to not have overraised. So, and I’m a single founder. So, So, and I’m a single founder. So, like yes, yes, I have control. I have agency. And like I have control. I have agency. And like if it’s if it’s Yeah. My big realization was, you know, Yeah. My big realization was, you know, I struggle with chronic anxiety and

[21:55] I struggle with chronic anxiety and all of that from doing this. all of that from doing this. Oh, we’re ending now, FA. Like, God, we Oh, we’re ending now, FA. Like, God, we can talk about all this. Okay. Chronic can talk about all this. Okay. Chronic anxiet. So, that Okay. This explains why anxiet. So, that Okay. This explains why peace is such a high mark.

[22:04] peace is such a high mark. Yeah. Yeah. No, in 20 2021 through 4 Yeah. Yeah. No, in 20 2021 through 4 like I had like extreme anxiety like I had like extreme anxiety like daily, you know, and like daily, you know, and everything was fight or flight. Every

[22:19] everything was fight or flight. Every day was fight or flight and I was day was fight or flight and I was just like I don’t want to do this for just like I don’t want to do this for 10 more years like why am I why am I 10 more years like why am I why am I doing this

[22:27] doing this exactly to myself, right? Like to myself, right? Like it’s it’s not it’s not fulfilling. So it’s it’s not it’s not fulfilling. So that’s when I had to kind of rethink that’s when I had to kind of rethink everything like the company is here to everything like the company is here to make people happy and bring us

[22:38] make people happy and bring us peace like it’s not the other way around peace like it’s not the other way around you know. My final comment on that is because I built BAM in the same way is no I am built BAM in the same way is no I am not going to serve the company like this

[22:54] not going to serve the company like this is not going to be of in service. I’m is not going to be of in service. I’m going to work my butt off. I’m going to going to work my butt off. I’m going to do all the things. I’m going to get the do all the things. I’m going to get the most extraordinary people here, etc. But

[23:01] most extraordinary people here, etc. But it will serve me. it will serve me. Yeah. Like what is a company anyways? Yeah. Like what is a company anyways? It’s not even a thing. It’s not even a thing. It’s not even a thing. It’s made up. It’s not even a thing. It’s made up. Everything’s made up.

[23:09] Everything’s made up. So why are you letting it dictate So why are you letting it dictate how you feel, you know? Especially as how you feel, you know? Especially as founder, CEO, like when there is founder, CEO, like when there is agency, then there’s no excuse. agency, then there’s no excuse. That’s the thing. That’s what just gets

[23:22] That’s the thing. That’s what just gets me face sometimes. I’m like, but you me face sometimes. I’m like, but you’re in charge, CEO. You’re the one you’re in charge, CEO. You’re the one who’s brought everybody here. who’s brought everybody here. Like be in charge. Like be in charge. Be in charge. Oh f I cannot. This is a

[23:33] Be in charge. Oh f I cannot. This is a whole other episode of just founders are whole other episode of just founders are not in charge. not in charge. I have a whole session on this because I have a whole session on this because it drives me brokers. I’m like so many it drives me brokers. I’m like so many different ways.

[23:42] different ways. And to me it just showcases a tremendous And to me it just showcases a tremendous gap in leadership and agency. Frankly, gap in leadership and agency. Frankly, when you just raise your 17 million or when you just raise your 17 million or goddamn whatever and yet you have to get goddamn whatever and yet you have to get a board.

[23:52] a board. That’s why you’re not in charge by the That’s why you’re not in charge by the way. way. That by the way. That’s right. That’s That by the way. That’s right. That’s how you get not in charge. how you get not in charge. , , yeah. yeah. FA, we could go on and on.

[24:01] FA, we could go on and on. We can go on and on. Yeah. We can go on and on. Yeah. Here we are because we’re just here for Here we are because we’re just here for a coffee. Fei Wang, thank you for being a coffee. Fei Wang, thank you for being here. You’re CEO and founder of Source

[24:08] here. You’re CEO and founder of SourceMedium Go check it out. AI. Happiness and peace be with you. AI. Happiness and peace be with you. And we got both. And we got both. And good. And good. And limo and party. We have all the And limo and party. We have all the Oh, good.

[24:21] Oh, good. All the domains. Yeah. All the domains. Yeah. Good. Smart. Thank you again. Appreciate Good. Smart. Thank you again. Appreciate it. it. All right. Thank you, Beck.